Rendered at 22:11:31 GMT+0000 (Coordinated Universal Time) with Cloudflare Workers.
alexpc201 2 hours ago [-]
I guess the vulnerability should work as follows (I haven't tried it), you send an email with a very large attachment to a "hide my email" address, the server that receives it (private.icloud.com) forwards it to the email server registered in iCloud which, being the very large attachment, sends a response email (from the real address) with the rejected email message. It's the first thing I would try.
I’m still mildly annoyed every email I send using Mail has my IP embedded in it
WA 3 hours ago [-]
Source? I don't think this is true. Doesn't seem to be the case for me. Maybe your email provider attaches your IP address?
fckapple 2 hours ago [-]
It’s in the headers. Send an email to your self from Mail and open the source in the inbox. There is your IP.
xoa 24 minutes ago [-]
I also just tried this as well, sending an email from a Migadu-based account to one at both Gmail and MXRoute using Mail.app under macOS 15.7.7. Neither included any private IP address info I could find in either headers or raw source. That would be a good leak to know about and as sibling comment said saagarjha definitely knows their stuff, so any tips to replicate would be appreciated.
ChrisMarshallNY 2 hours ago [-]
Is this from iOS? I just tested from MacOS, and the only IPs were for the transit and auth servers.
I'm not actually doubting it. saagarjha knows his stuff. I just don't see it, so maybe I'm holding it wrong.
frollogaston 49 minutes ago [-]
Same, I remember it being in the headers long ago but don't see it now. macOS Tahoe, Mail.app client, iCloud email sending to itself or to my Gmail, both set up in default ways, IPv6 disabled
LoganDark 3 hours ago [-]
Fetching any email content is always worse than blocking it, because the typical threshold for spam is "is this inbox monitored". If that is true, then blast it with spam. And fetching anything ever proves that the inbox is monitored.
tyre 3 hours ago [-]
At least in Gmail, downloading content (e.g. images) is disabled by default for suspicious emails. There is no way for the sender to know if it’s monitored unless this is disabled by explicit user action.
godelski 3 minutes ago [-]
This freaked me out the first time I used Mail. It rendered a PDF about buying bitcoin on PayPal (I don't have PayPal). Looked at the same email in Gmail and Thunderbird, it's just a PDF attachment, no message, and the sender was different. No wonder people are falling for those scams, Mail makes it easy for them.
Now if only I had a better client on my phone (never buying an iPhone again)
layer8 3 hours ago [-]
My impression as a Mutt user (which never downloads linked content) is that spammers don’t really care about whether an inbox is “monitored” or not.
2 hours ago [-]
rubatuga 5 hours ago [-]
Is it based on mail undeliverable errors? Or attempts to login using IMAP or SMTP with it? Or is it exposed during the SMTP protocol?
Dibby053 5 hours ago [-]
My guess would be it has nothing to do with email itself. Maybe it's some iCloud API that accepts obfuscated emails but returns the original email in the response, or an ID which can be used to retrieve the iCloud email from another API endpoint. Could be as simple as an "add contact/friend" feature in some Apple product (like a mail client, or a file sharing service) that resolves the obfuscated email to the original iCloud account.
freehorse 52 minutes ago [-]
In the comment section of the 404media article Joseph Cox writes when asked whether it reveals the icloud address the email is forwarded to or the apple id [0]:
> It reveals the email linked to the Apple ID.
So I assume you are right that it has nothing to do with the email itself, but prob some other service that links the obfuscated email to the appleid of the user.
I think they are hinting at the ad hoc "use hidemyemail" feature within e.g. the mail client.
I don't know what I am doing, but from a quick test, the mail header is at least disclosing the internal recipient (mail@host.com) "translation address" (as mail_at_host_com_12345abc_12345abc@icloud.com) and an alias creation date. But the latter seems to be a unix timestamp related to the real address alias creation time and is identical between an hidemyemail mail and a normal one, so there may be already a possible information leak for correlation. Side note, it also seems like the sending hidemyemail server contains the unsuspicious name "junk_forwarder". Lol.
Disclosing an address as alias and particularly as throwaway alias (through the translation address and server) already seems kinda counterproductive to begin with, but I would bet you can use this information somehow to get the sender "translation address". Either by some API interaction, or by messing with the mail header scrubbing of the translation service somehow. A server named "junk_forwarder" may be a little more lenient about what to accept or not.
Edit: Can confirm the Reddit comment linked. You simply send an email to the HME address, reply from Apple mail client, and then the real mail address gets disclosed. Mind you not even hidden. It's shown as sending from the HME alias in mail, but I received the mail with the real address as sender......... Jesus fucking christ, Apple. Did you even test this a little?
impish9208 3 hours ago [-]
> You send an email to the HME address, reply, and then the real mail gets disclosed in the mail source.
Does the initial sender matter? Like if it’s the HME address that sends first and receives the reply? I have around 180 of these addresses.
jijijijij 2 hours ago [-]
> then the real mail gets disclosed in the mail source.
It's not just in the source, I totally overlooked the fact the real email address is shown as sender. Lol.
> Does the initial sender matter? Like if it’s the HME address that sends first and receives the reply? I have around 180 of these addresses.
Appears so. Here is exactly what I did:
1. Created the HME through mail, sending to other email service address (OMA). (This disclosed the information in my original comment.)
2. Did some reply ping pong. (No additional disclosure.)
3. Send a new email from OMA to above HME.
4. Replied from iOS mail client (UI showing usage of HME alias. Yes, I verified this multiple times not to make a fool of myself.)
5. Received at OMA, the real address is disclosed.
6. On the iOS client side, the mail shows up as sent from the real mail address, too.
Not sure if 1. for HME creation is required, you can likely skip straight to 3. for any HME address.
Funny enough, I observed 6. in the wild before, but was kinda hoping that's an artifact of forwarding a copy of the mail to the thread. I tested this some, but not this particular ping-pong. So yeah... I now gonna check where I evidently leaked my real mail address already...
dustyharddrive 17 minutes ago [-]
6. is a sign of bad UX but not leakage to the recipient.
hunter2_ 5 hours ago [-]
As someone who doesn't rely on this feature, I'd love to know now as well, but perhaps the etiquette in public would be to align ourselves with:
> we will not discuss or disclose the details of the exploits until they're fixed.
But if there's a public forum where the cat's already out of the bag, then game on. Perhaps this:
...which makes it seem like perhaps the attack surface is limited to scenarios involving a Yahoo/Sonic address (assuming that Apple only sends X-Sonic-* headers when talking to those providers that want to see it), which might be a small percentage of users.
4 hours ago [-]
4 hours ago [-]
nashashmi 4 hours ago [-]
I wonder if it is replies to delivery receipts that causes this problem
Jbird2k 3 hours ago [-]
As someone who uses this feature I never send messages from a hide my email address as I only use it for random email signups. Am I still at risk of having my email exposed??? It’s also handy for using for free trials lol.
It’s hard for me to assess how real this risk is. Without details, we’re just extrapolating from circumstantial vibes.
What’s described sounds like it might be spooky. It might also be a magic trick to some degree… Mr. Cox’s PoC—“I gave a fresh Hide-My-Email alias to a guy who knows who I am, and he told me the email on my Apple ID”—is consistent with the claimed behavior but not exactly watertight.
It also sounds like it might be the sort of thing that’s either “just how the email ecosystem works” or mitigable by covert means. For example, if Apple can identify exploit attempts from its privileged vantage over its infrastructure, maybe that’s the basis for its relaxed impact assessment.
I’m reminded of Amazon’s risk assessment with respect to some Quick bug recently [0]: “yeah, it’s bad, but we checked and there are literally zero people other than you who’ve ever used that feature that way.”
Or maybe it’s the kind of thing that requires a structural sort of tradeoff to conclusively fix. I could imagine the exposure mechanism having something to do with their forthcoming move to segregate aliases to their own “private.icloud.com” domain.
(A move at which Mr. Cox swipes in the 404 Media article, too, of course, but hey—“impact journalism.”)
And then, since we have only vibes to go on, there’s the judgment reflected in the researcher’s email to Apple:
> “It seems that ending new sales of Hide My Email until the problem is fixed would be an effective way to limit the number of customers at risk. Is that an option?” Murphy wrote back.
I can only hope that was a sardonic moment of frustration quoted out of context… Hide My Email is “sold” as a tiny tiny bonus feature of a much bigger iCloud+ product. But as-quoted, it’s giving a little bit of Chicken Little… I’m reminded of the time somebody demanded that a firm I’m familiar with halt all sales (and pay hush money) because of a CRITICAL SECURITY HOLE: you could access the contents of a password field by typing the password in the field, pressing F12 in the browser, and typing $(“#pw-input”).value …
If the flaw really is the sort of thing that required fundamental product changes to fully address—like this domain segregation thing—a year doesn’t seem wild at all to make that transition safely and at scale. Especially if they identified effective mitigations in the meantime.
> > “It seems that ending new sales of Hide My Email until the problem is fixed would be an effective way to limit the number of customers at risk. Is that an option?” Murphy wrote back.
> I can only hope that was a sardonic moment of frustration quoted out of context
I didn't make my point clearly there, and I think it makes more sense in context, but it was a sincere suggestion that Apple could stop allowing new people to use Hide My Email. There are many other email aliasing services, so they wouldn't be depriving people of a unique offering. At the time, I wasn't aware that Hide My Email was only available as part of iCloud+. All I knew was that it wasn't free.
alwa 2 hours ago [-]
Makes sense to me! I'd gone off the 404 Media article originally linked. The way you put it in your blog timeline (now the link of record) makes perfect sense to me:
> We hope that Apple will take steps to limit the attack surface area even before the vulnerability is fixed. Disabling creation of new Hide My Email addresses could be helpful. It also seems responsible to notify all Hide My Email users of the risk.
Thank you for your work, and your persistence against our Sphinx-like overlords!
Thanks for everything y'all do with Easy Opt Outs. I've put a number of family members and acquaintances onto it. I'm glad this service exists at an actually affordable rate
dang 5 hours ago [-]
Thanks! We'll make that the main URL and put the submitted link in the toptext.
To me it seems, at least in this instance there is not even an exploit needed and the feature apparently is just broken beyond belief.
jijijijij 5 hours ago [-]
I think "real email" address is underselling it, since that's commonly the apple-ID, which is the gateway to some people's whole digital existence. Not to mention the fact, you tend to use hidemyemail in particular for services you don't want any identity leaked to. The "real email" may contain your legal name already.
FabHK 5 hours ago [-]
That's disappointing, both that the vulnerability exists in the first place, and that Apple takes over a year to not even fix it.
kevin_thibedeau 3 hours ago [-]
They're a struggling company and can't hire top talent.
chrisjj 4 hours ago [-]
Not as disappointing as the discover's decision to leave affected users ignorant and hence at risk.
Why not just use cloudflare with catch all email routing?
4 hours ago [-]
frollogaston 48 minutes ago [-]
Ok, yet another reason I have a totally separate burner Gmail instead of dealing with this.
charlesfries 3 hours ago [-]
"This is the one thing we didn't want to happen"
kittikitti 4 hours ago [-]
I use this feature often and I'm very disappointed. Depending on the exploit, I'm awaiting to join a class action lawsuit. I'm constantly humiliated by believing Big Tech's security promises and I've had enough. I suspect that this is yet another intentional backdoor. When these security systems fail, people like me experience violence.
cindyllm 4 hours ago [-]
[dead]
bubbi 5 hours ago [-]
[dead]
maram 2 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
mvdtnz 2 hours ago [-]
Sorry I'm not seeing how your comment is relevant to the orignal post, can you clarify?
maram 1 hours ago [-]
The post is about a vulnerability in Apple under CEO Tim Cook, who did horrible things after Steve Jobs died — most importantly, changing the UI/UX.
fsuts 5 hours ago [-]
I think you should formally write to Apple and give notice of 30 days to contact you or you will reveal it.
Send it to the USA media and regulator too
tjames7000 4 hours ago [-]
I've been going back and forth with Apple about it for a year. We don't feel comfortable releasing the exploit details even though they're being slow. We think enough people rely on Hide My Email for personal safety that it would be irresponsible.
chrisjj 4 hours ago [-]
> We think enough people rely on Hide My Email for personal safety that it would be irresponsible.
I am guessing you haven't tried that excuse on the users your witholding is leaving exposed.
tjames7000 3 hours ago [-]
We're hoping that by notifying people that there's a vulnerability, people can stop using Hide My Email if it matters to them. I don't think that disclosing the exploit method will get Apple to fix it faster at this point.
officeplant 2 hours ago [-]
Its the only reason I even pay the $1 a month icloud plan, so might as well cancel it if its gonna be eternally broken.
chrisjj 2 hours ago [-]
The problem there is
users cannot evaluate if it matters to them whilst all information needed to do so is being witheld.
ezfe 2 hours ago [-]
If having your personal email exposed would be a matter of personal safety or similar, then stop using it. If you're just using it for junk mail or to get a free trial then keep using it.
hunter2_ 1 hours ago [-]
Yes, but a mitigation suggestion like "keep using it, except don't do X specific sequence" (for example, send to a Yahoo address via the Reply button, or whatever the case may be) could be helpful as well, since it seems that bad actors (and/or good actors spilling the beans) will figure it out sooner than later anyway.
They don't seem to know or care what is going on with their own email systems.
I'm not actually doubting it. saagarjha knows his stuff. I just don't see it, so maybe I'm holding it wrong.
Now if only I had a better client on my phone (never buying an iPhone again)
> It reveals the email linked to the Apple ID.
So I assume you are right that it has nothing to do with the email itself, but prob some other service that links the obfuscated email to the appleid of the user.
[0] https://www.404media.co/apple-hide-my-email-vulnerability-re...
I don't know what I am doing, but from a quick test, the mail header is at least disclosing the internal recipient (mail@host.com) "translation address" (as mail_at_host_com_12345abc_12345abc@icloud.com) and an alias creation date. But the latter seems to be a unix timestamp related to the real address alias creation time and is identical between an hidemyemail mail and a normal one, so there may be already a possible information leak for correlation. Side note, it also seems like the sending hidemyemail server contains the unsuspicious name "junk_forwarder". Lol.
Disclosing an address as alias and particularly as throwaway alias (through the translation address and server) already seems kinda counterproductive to begin with, but I would bet you can use this information somehow to get the sender "translation address". Either by some API interaction, or by messing with the mail header scrubbing of the translation service somehow. A server named "junk_forwarder" may be a little more lenient about what to accept or not.
Edit: Can confirm the Reddit comment linked. You simply send an email to the HME address, reply from Apple mail client, and then the real mail address gets disclosed. Mind you not even hidden. It's shown as sending from the HME alias in mail, but I received the mail with the real address as sender......... Jesus fucking christ, Apple. Did you even test this a little?
Does the initial sender matter? Like if it’s the HME address that sends first and receives the reply? I have around 180 of these addresses.
It's not just in the source, I totally overlooked the fact the real email address is shown as sender. Lol.
> Does the initial sender matter? Like if it’s the HME address that sends first and receives the reply? I have around 180 of these addresses.
Appears so. Here is exactly what I did:
1. Created the HME through mail, sending to other email service address (OMA). (This disclosed the information in my original comment.)
2. Did some reply ping pong. (No additional disclosure.)
3. Send a new email from OMA to above HME.
4. Replied from iOS mail client (UI showing usage of HME alias. Yes, I verified this multiple times not to make a fool of myself.)
5. Received at OMA, the real address is disclosed.
6. On the iOS client side, the mail shows up as sent from the real mail address, too.
Not sure if 1. for HME creation is required, you can likely skip straight to 3. for any HME address.
Funny enough, I observed 6. in the wild before, but was kinda hoping that's an artifact of forwarding a copy of the mail to the thread. I tested this some, but not this particular ping-pong. So yeah... I now gonna check where I evidently leaked my real mail address already...
> we will not discuss or disclose the details of the exploits until they're fixed.
But if there's a public forum where the cat's already out of the bag, then game on. Perhaps this:
https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/1ukilw1/apple_hide_m...
...which makes it seem like perhaps the attack surface is limited to scenarios involving a Yahoo/Sonic address (assuming that Apple only sends X-Sonic-* headers when talking to those providers that want to see it), which might be a small percentage of users.
What’s described sounds like it might be spooky. It might also be a magic trick to some degree… Mr. Cox’s PoC—“I gave a fresh Hide-My-Email alias to a guy who knows who I am, and he told me the email on my Apple ID”—is consistent with the claimed behavior but not exactly watertight.
It also sounds like it might be the sort of thing that’s either “just how the email ecosystem works” or mitigable by covert means. For example, if Apple can identify exploit attempts from its privileged vantage over its infrastructure, maybe that’s the basis for its relaxed impact assessment.
I’m reminded of Amazon’s risk assessment with respect to some Quick bug recently [0]: “yeah, it’s bad, but we checked and there are literally zero people other than you who’ve ever used that feature that way.”
Or maybe it’s the kind of thing that requires a structural sort of tradeoff to conclusively fix. I could imagine the exposure mechanism having something to do with their forthcoming move to segregate aliases to their own “private.icloud.com” domain.
(A move at which Mr. Cox swipes in the 404 Media article, too, of course, but hey—“impact journalism.”)
And then, since we have only vibes to go on, there’s the judgment reflected in the researcher’s email to Apple:
> “It seems that ending new sales of Hide My Email until the problem is fixed would be an effective way to limit the number of customers at risk. Is that an option?” Murphy wrote back.
I can only hope that was a sardonic moment of frustration quoted out of context… Hide My Email is “sold” as a tiny tiny bonus feature of a much bigger iCloud+ product. But as-quoted, it’s giving a little bit of Chicken Little… I’m reminded of the time somebody demanded that a firm I’m familiar with halt all sales (and pay hush money) because of a CRITICAL SECURITY HOLE: you could access the contents of a password field by typing the password in the field, pressing F12 in the browser, and typing $(“#pw-input”).value …
If the flaw really is the sort of thing that required fundamental product changes to fully address—like this domain segregation thing—a year doesn’t seem wild at all to make that transition safely and at scale. Especially if they identified effective mitigations in the meantime.
Then again, maybe they really are negligent…
[0] https://www.theregister.com/columnists/2026/05/13/aws-patche...
> I can only hope that was a sardonic moment of frustration quoted out of context
I didn't make my point clearly there, and I think it makes more sense in context, but it was a sincere suggestion that Apple could stop allowing new people to use Hide My Email. There are many other email aliasing services, so they wouldn't be depriving people of a unique offering. At the time, I wasn't aware that Hide My Email was only available as part of iCloud+. All I knew was that it wasn't free.
> We hope that Apple will take steps to limit the attack surface area even before the vulnerability is fixed. Disabling creation of new Hide My Email addresses could be helpful. It also seems responsible to notify all Hide My Email users of the risk.
Thank you for your work, and your persistence against our Sphinx-like overlords!
To me it seems, at least in this instance there is not even an exploit needed and the feature apparently is just broken beyond belief.
Apple is about to make Hide My Email useless
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48559935
https://github.com/webmonch/hide-my-mail-cloudflare
Send it to the USA media and regulator too
I am guessing you haven't tried that excuse on the users your witholding is leaving exposed.